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  1. #1
    Samenkorn
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    berlin
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    Red face Hallo an Euch alle

    Hallo an Euch alle,
    bei meinen Interviews zu meinem Buch mit dem Arbeitstitel "22 Gründe für Erfolg" war einer meiner ersten Interviewpartner ein veganer Fitnesstrainer (bei dem ich als sportbegeisterter mehrere Les Mills Kurse hatte bzw. habe und der mir durch seine besondere Energie auffiel), der mich sehr inspiriert hat über meine Ernährung nachzudenken.
    Als ich dann von der Rohvolution im Berliner FEZ hörte, wurde ich hellhörig und besuchte zwei Tage lang die Messe und mehrere Vorträge. unter anderem auch von Urs Hochstrasser, den ich anschließend als Interviewpartner für mein Buch gewinnen konnte. Danach beschloss ich mich langsam der Rohkosternährung anzunähern, zunächst mal durch grüne Smoothies mit Wildkräutern. Eine liebe Freundin legte mir dann eine Leber- und Gallenreinigung ans Herz, was ich dann auch nach etwas zaudern durchführte und einen großen Berg ausgeführte "Steine" als Ergebnis hatte.
    Bis heute habe ich sehr positive Erfahrungen mit der Rohkost machen können, musste jedoch auch feststellen, dass es sehr kontroverse Aussagen in dem Bereich Rohkosternährung, vegane Ernährung gibt, wie überhaupt die verschiedenen Ernährungsformen sehr unterschiedlich bzw. gegensätzlich bewertet werden und darum regelrecht gekämpft wird...
    Deshalb bin ich jetzt unter anderem hier, um im direkten Erfahrungsaustausch aus der Praxis für die Praxis zu lernen.
    LG Glenn
    Geändert von Markus (27.08.13 um 10:13 Uhr)

  2. #2
    Dattelkern
    Guest
    Hallo Glenn,

    Zitat Zitat von batglenn Beitrag anzeigen
    Eine liebe Freundin legte mir dann eine Leber- und Gallenreinigung ans Herz, was ich dann auch nach etwas zaudern durchführte und einen großen Berg ausgeführte "Steine" als Ergebnis hatte.
    Herzlichen Glückwunsch . Du gehörst zu denjenigen, die auf die sog. "Leberreinigung" reingefallen sind. Gibt tausend Gummipunkte für dich auf dein Good-Karma-Konto :

    http://psiram.com/ge/index.php/Leberreinigung


    Und Obacht bitte in Zukunft. In der Rohkostszene kursieren noch mehr von solchen tollen Tips .



    Dattelkern
    Geändert von Dattelkern (27.08.13 um 12:30 Uhr)

  3. #3
    Samenkorn
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    berlin
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    Danke für die Karmapunkte, hab mich sehr darüber gefreut.

    http://psiram.com ist für mich kein wirklicher Maßstab für meine Handlungen

    LG Glenn

  4. #4
    Dattelkern
    Guest
    Zitat Zitat von batglenn Beitrag anzeigen
    http://psiram.com ist für mich kein wirklicher Maßstab für meine Handlungen

    LG Glenn
    Na gut...dann träum schön weiter .



    Dattelkern

    ( der langsam glaubt, daß man den Eso-Scheiß wohl niemals aus der Rohkostszene raus bekommt. Schade eigentlich...ist doch der Rohkostgedanke im Sinne einer Heilsernährung im Krankheitsfalle gar nicht mal so verkehrt. Wobei Dattelkern ausdrücklich nicht irgendein spinnertes "Seelenheil" meint, wenn er von "Heilsernährung" redet)

  5. #5
    Sprössling
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    Zitat Zitat von Dattelkern Beitrag anzeigen
    Dattelkern

    ( der langsam glaubt, daß man den Eso-Scheiß wohl niemals aus der Rohkostszene raus bekommt. Schade eigentlich...ist doch der Rohkostgedanke im Sinne einer Heilsernährung im Krankheitsfalle gar nicht mal so verkehrt. Wobei Dattelkern ausdrücklich nicht irgendein spinnertes "Seelenheil" meint, wenn er von "Heilsernährung" redet)
    Rohkosternährung verändert bestimmt die Darmflora, und eine veränderte Darmflora bringt veränderte Wahrnehmungen, die kann dann auch leicht etwas esoterisch werden, je nach dem wie alles einsortiert /interpretiert wird.
    Ist Dir der Gedanke auch zu esoterisch ?

  6. #6
    Administrator Avatar von Angelika
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    Zitat Zitat von Apfel Beitrag anzeigen
    Rohkosternährung verändert bestimmt die Darmflora, und eine veränderte Darmflora bringt veränderte Wahrnehmungen, die kann dann auch leicht etwas esoterisch werden, je nach dem wie alles einsortiert /interpretiert wird.
    Ist Dir der Gedanke auch zu esoterisch ?
    Ja, nur das mit den Seifen"steinen" ist ein Dauerbrenner, der zum Teil wirklich zum Kringeln ist wenn man das nach X Jahren immer und immer wieder liest wie "toll" da Leute entgiften und froh über ihre Seifen"steine" sind. Ist eine chem. Reaktion die erst durch den angeleiteten Verzehr entsteht.

    Mit lieben Grüßen
    Angelika

  7. #7
    Samenkorn
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    Woher habt Ihr bzw Du denn die verlässlichen Information der Seifensteine?

  8. #8
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    Mir hat erst kürzlich *wieder* eine Person von ihren "Erfolgen" dazu live berichtet. Sie meinte aber auch, dass sie und ihr Partner dann doch unsicher wurden, ob dass den Steine waren. Denn *wieder* .. auf Papier waren diese nach einer Zeit zergangen und hinterließen Fettflecken.

    Steinchen kann man immer wieder verlieren, so man das hat (ich noch nie soweit ich sah und merkte), doch einige praktizieren diese "Praxis" mit Begeisterung öfter.

  9. #9
    Dattelkern
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    Zitat Zitat von Apfel Beitrag anzeigen
    Rohkosternährung verändert bestimmt die Darmflora, und eine veränderte Darmflora bringt veränderte Wahrnehmungen, die kann dann auch leicht etwas esoterisch werden, je nach dem wie alles einsortiert /interpretiert wird.
    Ist Dir der Gedanke auch zu esoterisch ?

    Korrelation bedeutet nicht zwangsläufig, daß ein kausaler Zusammenhang besteht. Typischer Anfängerfehler pseudowissenschaftlich arbeitender Hobbymediziner .


    Dattelkern

  10. #10
    Sprössling
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    Gründe dafür warum die "Steine" vielleicht doch aus der Leber stammen könnten.

    Das ist nur der zweite Teil, im ersten dokumentiert er seine Leberreinigung und im zweiten liest er vor wie der Autor des Buches erklärt warum es vielleicht doch keine Seifensteine sind.

    http://www.ener-chi.com/enerchiwp/wp...stone-myth.pdf

    Also ich denke es hilft einigen sehr. Die Frage ist nur, ist es etwas was mein Körper jetzt braucht? Ich habe das Gefühl, wenn man chronische Rückenschmerzen hat vor allem im oberen Bereich und dden Schultern und sowieso das Gefühl hat mit der Leber Stimme was nicht. Kann könnte das darauf hinweisen dass der Körper darauf drängt endlich etwas Balast abzuwerfen.
    Es ist keine Antwort auf alles, und es gibt leute denen die Leberreinigung auch garnicht gut tat.
    Aber so ist es bei allen Dingen und wir müssen herausfinden was im moment wichtig ist in meinem Leben und welche Schritte anstehen.
    Name:  solar-plexus-chakra-colors.jpg
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    Geändert von firehawk (10.09.13 um 15:38 Uhr)

  11. #11
    Dattelkern
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    @ Leberreinigungsgläubige :

    Euch kann man noch so viel Beweise für die Wirkungslosigkeit dieses Hoax zeigen, ihr nehmt die Realität einfach nicht zur Kenntniss. Weil ihr sie nicht zur Kenntniss nehmen wollt. Euch ist wirklich nicht mehr zu helfen, reine Zeitverschwendung dies auch nur zu versuchen.


    Dattelkern

  12. #12
    sanibelle
    Guest
    @Dattelkern: Eben, lass doch einfach allem mal machen!

    Erfahrungen aus erster Hand sind durch nichts zu ersetzten!

    Und wenn dann mal irgendwas vielleicht einfach wirkungslos ist oder jemand auf die Schnauze fällt, trägst Du doch nicht die Verantwortung dafür. Wir sind doch alles erwachsene Menschen!

    Wobei ich schon sehr gern Eure Erfahrungsberichte und Meinungen hier im Forum les!

  13. #13
    Sprössling
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    ...


    The following facts prove why the stones passed during liver and gallbladder flushes cannot be olive oil stones, as
    claimed by some:

    1. When combined with citrus juice, olive oil cannot congeal into such relatively hard, dense, waxy stones, as are
    eliminated during liver flushes. You can easily determine this when you combine the two ingredients as part of the
    liver flush protocol. A saponification of olive inside the body is not possible, given the short time frame that the olive
    oil has to travel through the GI tract, and the absence of any saponifying chemicals or hardening agents. The small
    amount of hydrochloric acid found in an empty stomach has no influence on thickening oils or fats. Proteins are
    digested by gastric juice. Fats and oils are digested by bile and bile salts.
    To saponify fats or oils and turn them into solid soap, you need to use lye. Lye is a corrosive alkaline substance,
    commonly known as sodium hydroxide (NaOH, also known as caustic soda) or, historically, potassium hydroxide
    (KOH, from hydrated potash). Lye is a highly toxic chemical that can cause serious injury and death. Since you need
    lye to saponify fats, and lye is not ingested during a liver flush, the body has no capacity whatsoever to manufacture
    olive oil stones, and certainly not green, beige, yellow, brown, black, or red stones, all of which have been found to be
    released during the liver cleansing process.
    In a Quackwatch.com publication , author Peter Moran quoted from a letter of opinion published in the medical
    journal Lancet, after the Lancet published an article in favor of liver flushes (which infuriated liver flush opponents).
    The counter-article written by some group of obscure scientists attempted to make doctors and patients believe that the
    results of an alleged experimentation (no reference given, unheard of for bona fide scientists) were identical to the
    outcome of a liver flush.
    These pseudo-scientists claim: “Experiments revealed that mixing equal volumes of oleic acid (the major
    component of olive oil) and lemon juice produced several semisolid white balls after the addition of a small volume of
    a potassium hydroxide solution. On air drying at room temperature, these balls became quite solid and hard. We
    conclude, therefore, that these green ‘stones’ (passed during liver flushes) resulted from the action of gastric lipases on
    the simple and mixed triacylglycerols that make up olive oil, yielding long chain carboxylic acids (mainly oleic acid).
    This process was followed by saponification into large insoluble micelles of potassium carboxylates (lemon juice
    contains a high concentration of potassium) or ‘soap stones’.”
    Of course, these so-called scientists failed to mention that potassium hydroxide readily turns into white balls or
    pellets as this picture in Wikipedia shows (see Figure 15). There is no need to add olive oil or lemon juice to create
    these pellets or lumps of corrosive powder. Regardless, potassium hydroxide, which is very corrosive, has a high
    reactivity toward acids like lemon’s citric acid and fatty acids. Surely, almost everyone has seen potassium hydroxide
    solution leaking from an alkaline battery, as shown in the picture next to it.

    Figure 15: Potassium hydroxide pellets and powder
    ( picture visible in the source pdf:
    http://www.ener-chi.com/enerchiwp/wp...stone-myth.pdf )

    To then go on and draw the conclusion that these same lab-produced, hard white pellets, somehow created inside
    the body, magically turn into soft, waxy, bright green colored cholesterol stones, is simply ridiculous. If this weren’t
    such a serious issue with incredibly serious implications, I would think it was a fabulous joke.
    According to standard product analysis , virgin olive oil has a free acidity (expressed as oleic acid) of no more than
    0.8 grams per 100 grams (0.8 percent). Higher concentrations make the olive oil inedible. Doing a laboratory
    experiment with 100 percent oleic acid does not even remotely resemble what is happening when one ingests the
    barely 1 percent of free oleic acid found in ½ cup of olive oil. Turning this tiny amount of oleic acid into hundreds of
    green olive oil soap stones requires a miracle. It is certainly anything but science.
    As far as I know, nobody has ever done a liver flush using inedible olive oil composed of free acid of at least over
    80 percent, necessary to make soap in a laboratory setting. What this means is that even if, in fact, the olive oil
    ingested during a regular liver flush could be made into soap stones, there is just not enough free acid available to form
    even pinhead size soap stones, not to mention the hundreds, and possibly thousands, of lentil-to-chickpea size stones
    passed during most liver flushes.
    These scientists, as well as Quackwatch.com, EsoWatch.com and Wikipedia, have also omitted to mention that the
    body does not produce the caustic, toxic chemical potassium hydroxide that they used in their experiment (if they ever
    did perform such an experiment, or just read up on it on Wikipedia). Therefore, comparing a chemical reaction using a
    highly reactive toxic chemical with what is naturally occurring in the human digestive system is not only indicative of
    pseudoscience, but also highly deceptive and downright irresponsible.
    I can only assume that this comparison, using clever scientific jargon that most people cannot understand, or don’t
    know how to verify, was intentional. Real scientists would not be making up such fictitious stories and presenting them
    as scientific fact. To sum it up, the toxic lye potassium hydroxide is not part of the liver and gallbladder flush and,
    therefore, saponification of olive oil cannot take place inside the human body.
    The statement, “On air drying at room temperature, these balls became quite solid and hard,” made by these authors
    in the Lancet letter refers only to potassium hydroxide which, of course, plays no role in the liver flush. Besides, the
    gallstones passed during the liver flushes do not dry in the air - they enter the toilet water right away. Again, the
    comparison does not compute.
    The most presumptuous statement made in the Lancet letter is the following: “This regime consisted of free intake
    of apple and vegetable juice until 1800 h, but no food, followed by the consumption of 600 ml of olive oil and 300 ml
    of lemon juice over several hours.” I have worked with the liver flush process for over 15 years, but have never heard
    of any sane person drinking 600 ml of the mixture, which is over 20 oz. of olive oil, plus 10 oz. of lemon juice!
    Anyone who tries to do that will vomit like there is no tomorrow!
    The correct liver flush regime uses 4 oz. (118 ml) of olive oil, which is merely 20 percent the amount the 40-year-
    old woman mentioned in the article allegedly ingested. I am extremely doubtful that there is anyone who could drink
    this much olive oil and not faint. I know that those who have tried drinking 4 oz. of olive oil twice within an hour or
    two became violently ill. I also doubt that there could be any herbalist that would prescribe this much olive oil and
    lemon juice to a patient without having homicidal intentions.

    2. True medical science as taught, for instance, at Johns Hopkins University, of course, does not share the same
    views as the pseudo scientists or medical doctors who claim that liver stones don’t exist. Under the subject of
    ‘Cholangiocarcinoma’ in its online department of Gastroenterology & Hematology, Johns Hopkins describes the
    existence of intrahepatic biliary gallstones in the following way: “Gallstones vary in size, shape and number, and may
    be found throughout the biliary tract. The link between cholangiocarcinoma and gallstones is unclear. Intrahepatic
    gallstones may cause chronic obstruction to bile flow, promote micro injury of the bile ducts, and are associated with a
    2-10% risk of the development of cholangiocarcinoma (see Figure 1a in Chapter 1).
    Congenital cystic dilation of intrahepatic biliary ducts (Caroli’s disease), and choledochus cysts have also been
    closely associated with development of cholangiocarcinoma (bile duct cancer) .
    Therefore, to ignore, deny, or ridicule the existence of intrahepatic biliary gallstones is a foolish and inexcusable
    mistake that can have serious consequences for millions of people. Although liver cancer has been an extremely rare
    disease just half a century ago, this is no longer the case today. An average man’s lifetime risk of getting liver or bile
    duct cancer is now about 1 in 94, while an average woman’s risk is about 1 in 212, according to 2012 statistics
    published by the American Cancer Society .
    By comparison, according the recently released 2008 statistics on autism rates, 1 in 88 children will develop autism.
    Even if only 2-10 percent of all liver cancers are caused by liver bile duct congestion (due to biliary stones), the
    number of cancers is still extremely high. Regardless, liver cancer is only one of the many extremely serious
    consequences of liver bile duct obstruction, as you can derive from Chapter 1 of this book.

    3. Many laboratories have confirmed that the stones passed during liver and gallbladder flushes consist of mostly
    cholesterol and bile salts (see example in Figure 1b of Chapter 1). This means, the released stones must have
    originated in the liver or gallbladder. This is a link to a “Thesis on the liver cleanse” by Cristina Carugati, School of
    Naturopathy, Bissone, Switzerland, which contains verifiable laboratory reports as well .

    4. Millions of people all over the world have reported success with the liver flush. If it were useless, it would not
    have spread through word of mouth like it has. An ongoing liver flush survey on CureZone.com has shown that about
    75 percent of the people who have done a liver flush have benefited from it (please note that for lasting improvements,
    one must ensure that all the stones are removed from the liver and gallbladder; doing just one liver flush alone is not
    sufficient).
    World renowned Dr. Thomas Rau, of the Biological Medicine Network and Medical Director of the 50-year-old
    Paracelsus Clinic in Switzerland, who has used my liver flush protocol for over a decade now, confirms that it has
    greatly benefited thousands of his patients. He says it is very easy to prove the effects of the liver and gallbladder
    flushes through ultrasound. In every case where ultrasounds showed dilated bile ducts before doing liver flushes
    (because of their congestion with gallstones), they showed complete normalization after liver flushing.
    Author and naturopathic physician Alan Baklayan has also been using the liver and gallbladder protocol to help his
    patients effectively normalize their cholesterol levels. And I have received letters/emails from hundreds of physicians
    stating that they, too, found the liver and gallbladder flush to be their most effective method of helping their patients
    heal from a multiple range of disorders.

    5. Olive oil does not assume the putrid smell that emanates from most intrahepatic and extrahepatic gallstones that
    are released. The smell is unlike that produced by any type of fecal matter. Laboratory-produced soap stones do not
    emit this putrid smell.

    6. Analysis of released gallstones reveals that the majority of them contain all of the basic ingredients that make up
    bile fluid. Organic matter may also be present. Many of these stones consist of layers and layers of old, dark-green
    bile, something that does not happen overnight. The rest of the stones are the typical, rock -hard mineral stones found in
    the gallbladder. The red or black bilirubin stones some people pass during their flushes certainly cannot pass off as
    olive oil soap stones .

    7. During the liver flush, the olive oil mixture does not pass into the liver, as it would if it were eaten with food . Its
    only action is to prompt a powerful discharge of bile from the liver and gallbladder, thereby removing stones via their
    respective pathways. Neither the liver nor the gallbladder can therefore act as a soap stone factory.

    8. Once the liver and gallbladder are completely clean, no more gallstones are released after ingesting the oil/citrus
    juice mixture. If these stones were indeed made from olive oil, they would continue to be produced during liver flushes
    performed after the liver has been completely cleansed and all bile ducts clear and open. However, this is not the case.
    The liver flush produces no more stones once the liver is clean, regardless of how much olive oil one ingests.
    Besides, the olive oil consumed during liver flushes does not always produce the same results. During one flush,
    only 50 stones may come out, whereas during the next one, as many as 1,000 may be expelled. Sometimes, no stones
    come out at all when a large clogged biliary duct in the liver just hasn’t opened up yet. During the following flush,
    however, there may be hundreds of stones coming out. If the olive oil mixture alone were to turn into olive oil stones,
    as claimed, the same number of stones and types of stones would have to be made each time.

    9. Because of intolerance to olive oil, some people have used, for example, pure macadamia nut oil (which is
    colorless) during their flushes and produced precisely the same green-colored stones. Cholesterol stones that exactly
    match these green stones can be found in the bile ducts of dissected livers (see Figure 3b). Some people have used
    golden-colored olive oil for the liver flushes, but obtained the same results when they used a slightly green-colored
    olive oil.

    10. If stones were just blobs of olive oil, why do so many people get cured from chronic illnesses, such as asthma,
    allergies, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and even paralysis, after passing numerous stones during their liver flushes?

    11. Many people have released stones of different colors: black, red, green, white, yellow, and tan. Oliv e oil does
    not have coloring agents in it to produce stones of different hues, much less of such a colorful variety.

    12. People who have sent their stones in for chemical analysis have received reports that almost all the stones were
    made from cholesterol and salts. These constituents are identical to those in the cholesterol stones found in
    gallbladders that have been removed. A very small number of stones contained organic matter of unknown origin.
    Organic matter can easily become trapped in bile sludge that turns into stones inside the liver’s bile ducts.

    13. Quite a few individuals, including myself, have sometimes passed green cholesterol stones on the evening of
    the flush, even before taking the olive oil mixture. Others, who had already done several liver flushes, have reported
    stones coming out during the apple juice phase, all without the help of any olive oil. The stones that come out on their
    own display no different shape, color, or smell than the ones released during the actual flushes.

    14. It is conventional medicine that has actually proved the existence of gallstones in the bile ducts of the liver (see
    Diseases of the Gallbladder and Bile Ducts, in Chapter 1). The medical term for these stones is intrahepatic stones, or
    biliary stones. These green stones, made of cholesterol and some bile constituents, are, in fact, oily and, therefore, melt
    and decompose when exposed to warmer air temperatures, oxygen and airborne bacteria. Cholesterol itself consists of
    about 96 percent water. While these cholesterol stones are easily broken down when released into the environment,
    this does not occur when they remain trapped in the bile ducts of the liver. Cholesterol stones in the gallbladder tend to
    become hardened and calcified over several months and years.
    Plenty of photographs have been taken of dissected livers and are in the medical archives of university clinics that
    show the presence of these stones in the bile ducts of the liver (see Figure 3b, as well as Figure 1a from Johns
    Hopkins University). The research cited and referenced in this book is further proof of their existence.

    15. It is a medically proven fact that millions of people regularly pass green sludge, sometimes consisting of dozens
    of green cholesterol stones, in response to eating a very fatty meal. These stones are not composed of the oils or fats
    that were ingested. They are forced out of the liver and gallbladder along with the expelled bile. Unfortunately, unlike
    during liver flushing, some of the stones get caught in the common bile duct or even in the pancreatic duct. There is no
    difference between such stones that are released involuntarily and those passed voluntarily (and intentionally) during a
    liver flush.
    Anyone who drinks half a cup of olive oil on an empty stomach (without taking citrus juice and Epsom salt) will
    also release the same types of stones as passed during the liver flushes. This will make it very clear to them that these
    stones are not a product of citrus juice and Epsom salt acting on the olive oil and making soap stones. However, unlike
    during a proper liver flush, they may also suffer a gallstone attack or pancreatitis as a result of some of the released
    stones getting stuck in the common bile or pancreatic duct because they did not use the bile duct-relaxing Epsom salt.

    16. Someone recently asked me the following question: “I found a rather credible argument against the stones
    hypothesis, basically claiming that at least some of the stones we see after the flush are amalgamations of bile formed
    in the intestines. He describes an experimental sequence with dyes . I’d love to know what you think of it.”
    The experiment itself actually explains what happens when we ingest such toxic substances as dye, especially on an
    empty stomach. The person who wrote this post, first tried natural dyes, such as beetroot juice and activated charcoal,
    neither of which are treated as toxins by the body. If stones passed during a liver flush were indeed formed as a result
    of olive oil, juice, and bile combining to form stones, these natural dyes would have had to have red or black dye in
    them, just like they would color stools red or black.
    The synthetic dyes used in the experiment, E124 (Ponceau 4R) and E102 (Tartrazine), on the other hand, are highly
    toxic for the body. Their toxicity is multiplied manifold when ingested without solid food. When ingested in liquids,
    these dyes are immediately carried to the liver for detoxification, where they enter bile ducts and combine with bile.
    Bile can coagulate and clump together, forming bile stones just as quickly as an egg that is being boiled can become
    hard within minutes. When discharged during the liver flush these stones may have dye in them.
    However, this may not be the main reason for the coloration of stones, as observed by this person.
    The first batch of stones discharged from the liver or gallbladder can easily absorb synthetic dye color which has a particularly small
    molecular structure. Synthetic dyes can even stain the hardest quartz crystals.
    In the above experiment, the dye entered the stones via lesser dense structures/pathways where the stones were
    more porous. That’s why the stones are not uniformly red, but contain just streaks of red color. Again, most bile stones
    are not solid at all and absorb dye quite readily, almost like a sponge. After all, most cholesterol is water-soluble; only
    parts of the stones contain densely packed cholesterol crystals that reject water, and dye.
    The vast majority of stones released during liver and gallbladder flushes are greasy, fatty, waxy stones that consist
    of mostly cholesterol fats (as well as other bile constituents and organic materials), which makes them lighter than
    water (hence they float in water). They may contain a large amount of bacteria which produce toxic, smelly gases.
    When placed outdoors, especially in the sun, airborne bacteria will quickly decompose them, and the cholesterol fats
    will melt like butter. If kept in the refrigerator, this will not happen. When saturated with synthetic dyes, the dyes will
    remain behind. Bacteria simply cannot decompose synthetic chemicals.
    I receive thousands of emails each year from people who have regained their health doing liver flushes. Some of
    them report they already release stones during the preparation phase, before ingesting any oil or Epsom salt. Malic acid
    and apple juice have been shown to release stones in some individuals, and so has Epsom salt. If synthetic dye were to
    be added to Epsom salt or apple juice, these same individuals would also pass stones that are stained red. In truth,
    though, the stones are the same green cholesterol stones that show up in dissected livers.
    Ultimately, if olive oil were turned into stones, a person would produce the same amount of stones each time, given
    that the same method of cleansing is used. However, this is clearly not the case. Different people pass different
    amounts and types of stones each time they perform a liver flush.
    I have not passed any stones in many years although I still do one liver flush each year, using the exact same
    formula. I am not the only one. Over the years, I have received reports from thousands of people from around the
    world who have cleaned out their livers and no longer pass any stones, or just very few, during their maintenance
    cleanses. If the oil mixture were in fact responsible for causing these stones, the oil would produce about the same
    amount of stones each time.
    My bile secretion and digestion are excellent. I used to suffer one gallstone attack once every 2 months, for many
    years (over 40 attacks). Not passing any stones anymore is therefore not due to a dysfunctional liver and gallbladder.

    17. Some critics (M.D.s) claim that the results from the liver flush are just due to the placebo effect, and nothing
    else. I am not sure how the liver flush could possibly be the result of a placebo effect. The calcified stones released by
    the gallbladder, usually after 5 to 8 liver flushes, but as early as the first liver flush, are identical to those found in
    dissected gallbladders. They do not disintegrate and remain stone hard. Only semi-calcified stones may shrink in time;
    yet the calcified shell remains intact.
    I am also not sure how wishful thinking and positive expectation can cause the liver and gallbladder to release
    hundreds and thousands of stones over a series of liver flushes, and then no longer have the same result (once the liver
    is clean). Since the person does not really know if and when his or her liver is actually clean, shouldn’t the placebo
    bear the same results every time a person does a liver flush? I wish it were this easy.
    I personally suffered over 40 gallbladder attacks during a period of more than 10 years, and my gallbladder was
    packed with stones, causing a painful, short spinal scoliosis. Since my first liver flush, I never suffered another attack.
    The scoliosis, among other health problems, vanished after my twelfth flush. After that, none of my annual flushes has
    produced any stones, although I used exactly the same procedure. My gallbladder is completely clean and efficient
    now.
    If the placebo effect can accomplish all that, then by all means, why not promote it as an effective treatment?
    However, I have never heard of anyone who passed gallstones and became healthier afterwards just by having hopeful
    expectations. Every person who does a liver flush expects to pass stones but, sometimes, no stones come out at all.
    Others who suspect that they do not have any stones at all, or not anymore, may still pass many of them. The placebo
    has, therefore, very little, if any, influence on the outcome or liver flushes.
    Thousands of people from all over the world have saved their gallbladders through liver flushing. Others have fully
    regained their health and even saved their own lives by doing this flush. Those who intentionally promote or sprea d the
    strange and unsubstantiated claim that gallstone-flushing is a placebo and somehow produces olive oil soap stones, rob
    their compatriots and themselves of the opportunity to benefit their own health. This is something they will have to live
    with.
    Ignorance cannot be cured. It needs to be replaced with knowledge.
    The following is an unedited, unabbreviated experience report I have received from someone who started off with
    skepticism, and it sums up this chapter very well:

    “For years I’ve been having pains in my lower-right abdomen. I thought it was my appendix. So I got tested. My
    appendix was removed yet I still had the pains. Next a couple doctors (I’ve seen dozens for different reasons)
    suggested I get an ultrasound. So I did. Turned out my gallbladder was packed with stones. Very interesting to see one
    of my organs filled to the rim. The surgery was expensive and I wasn’t too hot on the idea of having a second surgery
    in less than two months. Eventually, I ran into someone who told me all about the liver flush. I was like, “What the hell
    did you say?” Sounded like bull to me, and I was almost sure it was, but what did I have to lose? Well, a few stones, I
    guess. I took Epson salts and the olive oil drink, and the next morning I saw green balls in the toilet, some floating,
    others on the bottom of the toilet. It was cool but I figured it had to be the olive oil or some other food residue. So I
    took it to the labs of the University of Chicago. I have a friend who knows someone who offered to help me out and
    run the tests on a couple of the stones – yes, I fished them out of the toilet!! Sick!!!!! Then, I told my doctor about it.
    He said not to expect anything. I was way ahead of him. I was psyching myself up for another surgery, trying to prove
    to myself it was the only thing I can do. Then I received the lab results. The test explained the stones were made of bile
    salts, parasitic infestation of some kind and one was calcified, in which case the technician explained to me that’s why
    it sank. I went back to my doctor and told him. He didn’t believe it, and, frankly, neither did I. Then I got another
    ultrasound; and the result? My gallbladder was less than half -full of stones unlike before when it was completely filled
    up. Since then I’ve done slightly mor e than ten flushes and, eventually, another ultrasound detected a clear gallbladder.
    As for the pain? Well, that went away at flush number four or five. And my complexion has dramatically improved,
    which I noticed had changed after the third flush. I had acne for fourteen years. I think it’s safe to say that not only is
    America a young country, naive politically and socially, but we’ve also gone way off base in the field of medicine. In
    particular, doctors here, for the most part seem to be great at relaying long-held information, but in the world-wide
    picture, they can learn a lot from more ‘open-minded’ parts of the world. No offense, docs. It’s not just you. It’s time
    to rid ourselves of pride and admit that we, as a nation, can use some guidance. Since my gallbladder ordeal, I’ve
    learned of more than a dozen people who’ve naturally cured themselves of the ‘incurable’. A few from cancer and
    another one from arteriosclerosis; and then, AIDS. Crazy, I know. His doctors didn’t believe it either, all fourteen of
    them who each did a blood work-up. Cheers.”

    Source: http://www.ener-chi.com/enerchiwp/wp...stone-myth.pdf
    Letztändlich geht's ja darum ob es hilft oder nicht. Dem einen hilft es nicht, dem anderen ein wenig, dem anderen viel, und bei manchen verändert es eben alles.

  14. #14
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    Hallo firehawk,

    da dies ein deutschsprachiges Forum ist und du auch gut deutsch sprechen kannst, würdest du deinen zitierten Text übersetzen, wenn er dir so wichtig ist?
    Es würde dazu beitragen, dir Klarheit zu bringen und so du meinst auch den anderen.
    Oder glaubst du, das liest jemand noch dazu auf Englisch? Ich vermute, 5 % wenn es gut geht.

    Ich zeige es dir anhand eines Beispiels, zitiert werden als Erklärung häufig diese Artikel:
    Dekkers R: "Apple juice and the chemical-contact softening of gallstones", THE LANCET • Vol 354 • December 18/25, 1999, S.2171
    ↑ Christiaan W: Could these be gallstones? The Lancet, Volume 365, Issue 9468, Seite 1388, 16. April 2005 doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(05)66373-8



    Zitat von der renomierten Lancet, Statement da ein Brief daraus gerne zitiert wird: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...373-8/fulltext mit einer etwas holprigen Google Übersetzung:

    Eine 40-jährige Frau wurde in der Ambulanz mit einer 3-monatigen Vergangenheit unter wiederkehrenden schweren rechten hypochondrische Schmerzen nach fetthaltige Lebensmittel bezeichnet. Bauch-Ultraschall zeigte mehrere 1-2 mm Gallensteinen in der Gallenblase.
    Sie hatte vor kurzem eine "Leberreinigung" Regelung auf den Rat von einem Botaniker gefolgt. Diese Regelung bestand aus freien Aufnahme von Apfel-und Gemüsesäften bis 1800 Std., aber ohne Essen, durch den Konsum von 600 ml Olivenöl und 300 ml Zitronensaft über mehrere Stunden. Diese Tätigkeit führte zur schmerzlosen Übergang von mehreren halbfeste grünen "stones" rektal in den frühen Stunden des nächsten Morgens. Sie sammelte sie, lagerte sie in der Tiefkühltruhe, und stellte sie in der Klinik (Abbildung).

    Anhang 1144

    Bild: Halb-solid grüne"Steine​​" rektal übergeben (oben) und chirurgisch entfernt Cholesterin Gallensteine ​​(unten)

    Die mikroskopische Untersuchung unserer Patienten Steine ​​gezeigt, dass sie keine kristalline Struktur haben, zu einer öligen grünen Flüssigkeit nach 10 min bei 40 ° C schmelzen, und kein Cholesterin , Bilirubin oder Kalzium enthalten, gemessen durch etablierte nasschemische Verfahren. Traditional Fäkal Fettextraktion techniques ergeben, dass die Steine ​​enthaltenen Fettsäuren, die erforderliche saure Hydrolyse zu den freien Fettsäuren vor der Extraktion mit Ether erhalten . Dieser Fettsäuren entfielen 75 % des ursprünglichen Materials .

    Experimentieren zeigte , dass das Mischen gleicher Volumina von Ölsäure ( der Hauptbestandteil von Olivenöl ) und Zitronensaft mehreren halb- feste, weiße Kugeln hergestellt nach der Zugabe einer geringen Menge einer Kalilauge . Bei Lufttrocknung bei Raumtemperatur wurde diese Kugeln ziemlich fest und hart.

    Wir schließen daher, dass diese grünen " Steine ​​" aus der Wirkung von Magen- Lipasen auf die einfachen und gemischten Triglyceriden , aus denen Olivenöl , was langkettigen Carbonsäuren (hauptsächlich Ölsäure) geführt. Dieser Prozess wurde durch Verseifung in große unlöslichen Mizellen Kaliumcarboxylaten ( Zitronensaft enthält eine hohe Konzentration an Kalium-) oder " Speckstein " gefolgt . Die Cholesterin- Steine ​​auf Ultraschall festgestellt wurden durch eine Operation ( Abbildung) entfernt .

    Eine Suche im Internet zeigt, dass viele Gesundheits- Websites, die sogenannte " Gallenblase Spülung " oder " Leberreinigung " ziegen . Manche zitieren einen veröffentlichten Korrespondenz Brief im Lancet zu diesem Thema . Die 1-Tages- Spülung in der Regel aus einem Fasten über Nacht , dann Äpfel essen am Morgen , wobei nur Kräutertee durch den Tag , und dann am Abend eine warme Mischung aus Olivenöl ( 2/3 Tasse ) und frischem Zitronensaft (1 / 3 Tasse ) . Die Patienten werden angewiesen, dann auf der rechten Seite liegen (obwohl einige sagen, die linke ) . Es wird behauptet, dass am nächsten Morgen die Gallensteine ​​in dem Stuhlgang landen .

    Wir haben gezeigt, dass diese Spülung für die Ausweisung Gallensteine ​​ein Mythos sind , und dass die Behauptungen, die von einigen gemacht werden, irreführend sind. Das Aussehen eines Briefes in der Zeitschrift wurde genutzt, um diese Praxis seit einiger Zeit wie die Aufzeichnung legitimieren sollte, dies soll damit eingestellt werden.

    Wir erklären, dass wir keinen Interessenkonflikt haben .


    References

    1 Steen G, Blijenberg BG. Chemical analysis of gallstones. Eur J Clin Chem Clin Biochem 1991; 29: 801-804. PubMed
    2 Varley H. Practical clinical biochemistry. London: Whitfriars Press, 1967.
    3 Dekkers R. Apple juice and the chemical-contact softening of gallstones. Lancet 1999; 354: 2171. Full Text | PDF(43KB) | CrossRef | PubMed




    Ich hatte einmal von zuviel Fruchtzucker-Zuchtobst Konsum "Sludge". Durch Nahrungskarenz erledigte sich dies. Operation war keinesfalls erforderlich dafür.


    Mit lieben Grüßen
    Angelika

  15. #15
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    Zitat Zitat von sanibelle Beitrag anzeigen
    @Dattelkern: Eben, lass doch einfach allem mal machen!

    Erfahrungen aus erster Hand sind durch nichts zu ersetzten!
    Das klingt so nach: "Lass die Dummen doch machen - und hoffen wir, dass sie uns dann im Forum erzählen, wie es ihnen damit ging. Und wenn dann wieder ein Neuer damit kommt, sagen wir wieder nix, weil sonst bekommen wir ja keine weitere neue Erfahrung und jeder soll diese Erfahrung doch selbst machen"

    *grübel* Dient das Forum dann zum Austausch oder eher zur Belustigung *grübel*

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